Timing things

I haven’t had a single job where I haven’t at some point been disciplined for not arriving on time. Usually, the complaint takes the form of “You’re always late!” and that doesn’t mesh with my literal brain, so I’ll argue that I wasn’t late the past three days, or that I’ve only been 15 minutes late once in the last month and this was the reason, or something like that. Which then gives me a reputation for being intransigent and argumentative.

But aside from whether I’m actually “always” late or not, I do have a problem with timing things.

jablonec-stationWhen I have a specific appointment, I suffer from overbuffering. I’ll go, “Right… I’ll need to catch the 10:55 train, better be at the station at 10:50 so I don’t have to run… Hm, need to buy a ticket, never know how long the line’s going to be, better be there at 10:40… It takes me 5 minutes to get to the station… or is it 10 minutes? I’ve never actually timed it, better be on the safe side, leave the house at 10:25… That means I’d better have my coat on and my bag packed at 10:15, otherwise I’ll be rushing all over the place and panicking… OK, I’ll have to get ready at 10:00.” And the end result is usually that I’m at the station by 10:20, 35 minutes early. (Or, in even sadder cases, that I’m so stuck on the idea of leaving the house at 10:25, that I’ll be sitting on the sofa with my coat on for 15 minutes until it’s time to leave). Which is not really a problem, but it is a tad inefficient, and shows that I don’t really have a good grasp of how long things actually take me.

As soon as it’s a recurring appointment, though, I start getting careless. I remember that last time I twiddled my thumbs for 35 minutes, so I’ll just get myself an extra cup of tea and play on the laptop for a bit before leaving. And that’s when the real shit starts happening. Before I know it, it’s actually 10:45, and I have absolutely no chance of still making it to the station on time.

It’s even more complicated when it gets to work. I think in absolutes. The train leaves at 10:55, which is an absolute. One minute late and the train will have left. Even when I’m messing up how long things take, I still have a very clear end goal. With jobs, it’s not that easy. To my immense surprise, I learned last year that a 9:00am start time doesn’t actually mean the goal is to be there at 9. Because we’re dealing with people here, and their perceptions of me. The goal is that I should be seen to be WORKING at 9. So no getting coffee, no starting up my computer, no going through my schedule. I need to be AT WORK. And that doesn’t mean “present at the office”.

A complicating factor is that when I ask about starting times, I often get the answer of “oh, we’re not that particular about times, as long as you get the work done.” That is a lie. (And it has taken me nearly two decades to figure out it’s a lie). People get annoyed when I always get in later than they do, never mind that I’m also always the last to leave (usually by one or two hours). It doesn’t make sense. It’s all about messy human perceptions. It’s not about how much work I do, or how many hours I’m working. It’s only about how it makes people feel. And apparently, me getting in late makes them feel like I don’t really care about making an effort.

So, knowing all this, why is it still so incredibly hard for me to get anywhere on time?

Because I struggle. I struggle with timing, knowing how long things take me. I struggle with executive function, initiating the actions that will get me somewhere on time. I struggle with why it’s important, because to be honest, how it makes others feel is not a paramount motivation for me.

If there is a specific reason why I need to be at the office ahead of time (like manning the phone line that opens at 8:30, or having a website go live at 10:00), I can manage just fine. But simply keeping up appearances? Not logical. No motivation.

And I think the last part might be crucial. Because I’m hardly ever late for appointments with friends (although that’s also because the one-off schedule overbuffering kicks in there). But with people I’m not emotionally invested in? Not really. And maybe that’s why I get grief for being late for work. Not because it’s a rule not to be late, because others get away with being late on occasion, and I never get away with it. But because people can somehow tell that making them happy just by doing something completely illogical is not that important to me.

The problem is made up of so many unrelated but heavily interactive elements, that I have no idea where to start in fixing it. And I’m not even sure I want to fix it. Deep down, I just want to yell at employers to simply let me be. Let me do my job, because I do my job well and I put in all the hours and I always get things done on time. So why make my life miserable by focusing only on what time I get in? Is that really the most important thing about my job? Get a f***ing grip!

But this is the way people feel. Will I try changing them, or will I try to change myself?

51 thoughts on “Timing things

  1. I may be the only person in the world who finds this funny, but I checked your blog, and ten seconds after I closed the tab I get an E-Mail about a new post with “timing” in it’s title … I’m giggling. And now I am reading your post and will continue this comment then.

    So, here I am, back again, and stopped giggling, because this is horribly frustrating. Timing is something I struggle with, too. It keeps taking a backseat to other things, especially my routines. Like “Get the key before you leave the house on your own”. It’s a rule in my head. Even if I don’t need the keys, because someone else will be there when I get back, I will keep searching for the keys. I have missed quite a lot of trains because of this even when I was to early when I started searching. The “I am way to early at the station because I planned for every variable i could think of”-phenomenon is also a dear friend of mine, so I feel the frustration.

    If it is actually you getting more grief about getting late then the other employees, then yes, I would definitely talk to your employers about it. Is the “never” literal or figurative here? Maybe their problem is not that you come in late but they have a theory about why you come in late (not enough motivation, hangovers, whatever) that is probably total rubbish but colours their opinion of you and your work?
    If it’s really just a “they value getting in on time more than they themselves realize”, I would try to find the lesser evil.
    How much would you actually make your life miserable for getting in “on time” more often? Is it worth having less stress with your employers? Are there any workarounds you can use to do it? (I will be happy to shower you with applicable and non-applicable suggestions.)

    On a totally unrelated note, I am one step further to receiving my official diagnosis! I contacted a … well, let’s call it a clinic, because I am totally useless as to what you would actually call this thing in english (It is a part of a clinic, basically, but they only take patients that don’t stay overnight, so it’s not a ward, right?) – and received an e-Mail back right the next day (which is a BIG thing, because although so many autism specialists say you can contact them via e-mail and they never call or write back) that I will soon be given my appointments and I am … excited and terrified at the same time.

    • How much would you actually make your life miserable for getting in “on time” more often?

      That’s a good question, and the answer would be that it wouldn’t make my life miserable at all. Except that I seem to be chronically incapable of actually making it happen. And that incapability does cause me a lot of stress and anxiety. It’s like I’m being expected to be proficient in maths at my job, even though my actual work doesn’t have anything to do with maths.

      The “never” is literal, because I haven’t had a job yet where it wasn’t a problem. So yeah. I never get away with it, in the sense that getting away with it means that nobody remarks on it for the length of my employment. And it’s not like I’m 30 minutes late every single day. It’s more like, 5 minutes late here, then two days being 5 minutes early, then another day 10 minutes late but with a phone call and a reason (flat tire), then another couple of days being perfectly on time, then 5 minutes late again… But there is a pattern and it’s detrimental to the image people have of me.

      (And WOOHOO on getting started on a diagnosis! I got my diagnosis at a mental health clinic as well, I don’t know if that is the right phrase either but I’m fairly sure that the overnight thing is called in-patient, so go on and call it a clinic. People will know what you mean).

  2. You could be describing me here: I often get fixated on doing something at a set time and will sit around waiting for that time. In the 18 months that I worked part-time in a pub I was late once (the day after my birthday when I was very hungover) because it was shift-based and I had to be there. But in my normal work I might arrive any time between 7 am and 11 am and do the 8 hours (my contract mentions 7:30 am to 3:30 pm). Luckily for me they are very accommodating: they really do not care about which hours I put in as long as the work gets done.

    I think this should be one of the accommodations that employers offer to autistic people if the job doesn’t depend on being present between fixed hours (such as a help desk). This flexibility doesn’t have any negative effects and contributes to a more productive, happier working environment. So everybody wins. It is frustrating that 9-to-5 is so ingrained into the culture that many simply cannot imagine doing things differently.

    • I would LOVE an accommodation like that, it would really help me feel less anxious about start times. But in my experience, it would have to be explicitly about me being autistic, because when I’m being held to neurotypical standards, no matter how accommodating and flexible employers say they are, it turns out they still get annoyed at me.

      • In my case it’s not an official accommodation because I’ve not disclosed my autism (although many of my colleagues are aware of it through my blog). It’s simply that the management are more concerned about me being happy and productive than anything else. This is the first place I’ve worked where this is genuinely the case, and that’s probably why I’ve stayed here so long.

        • Yeah, I understand that your situation is different. For myself, I’m just extremely cynical about being able to find a job where management are mostly concerned with making me happy and productive, because it only seems to happen when I am willing to be fitted into THEIR mold of what a happy, productive worker looks like. I’m happy that you’re found a way to make it work!

        • Wow that sounds amazing!

          I work in the public sector and in the data/admin department we tend to clock on and off exactly on time. Firstly we are all mathematicians and like absolutes. Secondly I enjoy my work, but it’s not my life, therefore I feel that I want to get back from work on time, to get back to the li where I do have my emotional investment, and getting in on time is my “fee” for leaving work on time guilt free.

        • Funnily enough, I would welcome a clocking in and out system, because of the absolutes like you say. I’d still like to start a bit later because I do my best work in the afternoons, but it would definitely eliminate the whole discussion about what hours I’m putting in.

        • Yes, I am very glad that we are not expected to work late or overtime as a sign of commitment to our jobs, which I think is endemic in our private businesses in the UK. It makes things much easier and less stressful.

    • a friend of mine, who is not autisitic, is lucky enough to work in a place that offers this to all of their employees. they have specific hours to work within, say M-F 0700-1800. within that work week period, they must clock 40 hours. how they do it is up to them, and they are also expected to communicate their schedule with others, as they work as a team.

  3. Yes! I have frequently sat in my room with my coat on waiting for it to be the exact time it will take to leave.

    Although, now that I walk most places, I have an amazing ability to overestimate walking distance. I was used to driving places (or being driven) so I tend to allocate 15 minutes for traffic. Which is a bit silly on a less than 10 minute walk (and also since I’m not really sure how traffic would affect this walk either… it is literally half a mile and I have to cross the street maybe twice, and always at stop signs…) But I still give myself the traffic accommadations.

    And I find myself slipping later and later on times when there is no explicit start time. I can and will consistently be on time for class. But when it is “go to lab and do experiments” the time that I get up and start leaving has a tendency to slip. My problem is actually partially the opposite, that no one has a strong opinion about WHEN I get to lab (within a reasonable margin), but I really would prefer to get there at a decent hour so that I could leave at a decent hour. And since there aren’t any expectations, I slip later and later.

    Although, I have a meeting this morning in 45 minutes, so I should probably get off the internet and get dressed and eat and such…

    • Slippage. I totally recognise that. And I’m also fascinated with that “reasonable margin” you mention. Because if it’s not explicitly stated, I have no idea where that reasonable margin falls.

      • I calculated my reasonable margin by observing when other people get in. So I won’t get in later than the latest I have noticed someone else get it. So if I don’t have an experiment that means I have to be in at a certain time, I can come in anytime between whenever-I-want-to-get-up-and-get-going, but usually no earlier than 8 and I don’t let myself come in later than 11, which is the latest I’ve noticed other people regularly showing up at. (But the earlier I get in, the earlier I get to go home, which is also nice.)

        But I’m also in a research lab in graduate school, which I think why I have such a large acceptable “reasonable margin” of which to come in at. If I was in a more formal/professional/business field, then I might have more issues with the time.

  4. I can relate, and I have a suggestion. Something that may work for a *literal* person. If your employer wants you to start at 9:00, try interpreting that as “9:00 – X”, and experiment with different values for X to see what gives you the best results. I would consider giving X the value of 5 minutes (or whatever you think might work) for a few weeks, track the results, and adjust as needed.

    • Yeah, it’s definitely one of the workarounds I’ve considered. I’d still need a manager to give me an exact starting time to make that work, though, and that’s something that previous managers have been curiously unwilling to do even if I ask them outright. It’s one of those social things, I guess, the “reasonable margin” that Alana mentioned in a previous comment. I mean, I’ve known I have trouble getting to work on time for years, so I *always* ask at exactly what time they want me to start. And I nearly always get the answer, “Oh, we’re not that bothered, just make sure you finish your projects.” I’ve only had one job out of the 14 jobs I’ve had in the past 12 years where the owner literally said, “I don’t want anyone coming in after 9, and that’s final.”

      • Well, maybe you could try and come in extra-early for a few days (setting yourself a time, say 8:30), and try to find an average of when your coworkers get there, and then set the average or maybe a bit earlier as a set time?

  5. I am habitually early and/or sitting on the couch with my coat on. Unless my husband makes me late. We both have issues with time and they’re diametrically opposite problems. Makes for an interesting relationship.

  6. I have found myself saying to my husband “Look, Look, ME! In someone else–ME!!!” More times than I can count the past few months with your blogs.

    This–omg–this, lol.

    My husband recently politely (I will give it to him which isn’t always his M.O. with pointing out what he thinks of as flaw and what I think of as my Aspie traits, lol): pointed out my habit of over and underestimating time pathologically.

    And it made me reflect on my time habits–of having a penchant for being chronically late. Of sometimes being late just to BE late and for no good reason (that an outsider could see). As often disregarding time just to thumb my nose at the idea of being on time…for no good reason to need to thumb my nose at it other than having time being more important than performance being ludicrous.

    Well. THIS. I shared it with my husband, too!

    • The joy of recognition is awesome isn’t it? 😀 I remember exactly how that felt when I started discovering blogs by other autistic adults, prior to my diagnosis. I’m so glad to hear that you find stuff here that you can share with the people who are important to you!

      And I totally agree on time over performance being ludicrous, lol.

  7. And of course at just being late (or super early) just by having a defaultly sucky internal time estimation gadget. 🙂

  8. Yeah, NT here. I’m a “time optomist” – I often assume things will take less time than they actually do, which makes me late – just a bit, but chronically. Since I learned the phrase “time optomist” though, I’ve managed to be more on time and to question myself and say – “will it really be X minutes or should I double that?”. I’ll double it and then decide if I’m going to do that “quick little whatever”. It usually works out well 🙂

    I’m forwarding this to a linkedin contact who is in employee/employer training re. disabilities. She’s trying to build a curriculum around autism, and is happy to have someone who understands autism from a different direction than “professionally”. I’m keeping my eyes open for work-related/executive functioning issue posts so she can get an idea of where help would be beneficial. I hope that’s OK!

    If you know of other posts or blogs that might be good for her to check out, I’ll pass them on 🙂


  9. I used to have that issue as a teenager. Got so much flak for it from all of the people that I’ve developed a nearly-pathological aversion to being late (like, late can induce tears on its own).

    What I started doing was making my goal to show up a half hour early for regular things and an hour early for special appointments. Which is not efficient at all. However, works to prevent the getting-sidetracked and forgetting something-induced lateness. Also with a special buffer in case I forget that the appointment is a thing that I need to go to, which happens with more regularity than I care to admit. 😉

    • I do that for appointments as well, because being late for an appointment is simply something I. Cannot. Do. When it’s an everyday thing however, time slippage creeps in.

  10. I’m late for school almost every day, but because one of the teachers I really respect gets upset when I’m late, I make a special effort to be on time for school on Tuesday mornings, so I can be on time for her class. Other than that, I’m almost consistently 10 minutes late for school, every single day (because I miss the bus I should be taking). But when it comes to a one-off event, I’m typically half an hour early, even though I only ever plan to be barely on time, because I have a problem with estimating the amount of time something is going to take. This isn’t just a problem with getting places, though. I can’t estimate the amount of time an assignment will take, or the amount of time I need to study material for a test, so I don’t plan my time effectively and my homework is mostly late or not-done-at-all, and I haven’t studied in advance for a test in over two years.

    • I get that so much! I even have it with silly things like replying to comments, lol. I’ll think it only takes a couple of seconds, a minute at most, and then I’m reading and re-reading and before I know it, I’ve wasted half an hour. Whereas I constantly overestimate how long it takes me to do the dishes (feels like 2 hours, usually only takes 20 minutes).

  11. Guess who was sitting at the platform 10 minutes early?
    Navigating through the comment replies is a tad difficult on my mobile phone, so I’m writing a new comment.
    Concerning the diagnosis – yes, yay me, but as I check back on the website of the clinic I start getting worries. I get that they have to describe things for NTs, especially for neurotypical parents of yet to be diagnosed autistic childre But they write tics instead of stimming, don’t talk of sensory issues but of “preoccupation with superficial details like the surface or smell of a toy” and stuff like that makes me wonder if the medical staff actually thinks of it like that and if they will only consider “has to watch a certain TV show no matter the circumstances” (another phrasing of theirs) as “autistic routine” and all this and yes, I know, I am overthinking this, but as I wait for the call I just can’t seem to stop …

    • Go in armed with knowledge. Nobody says that in order to get diagnosed, you have to also accept treatment. One thing that you do need to be careful of is their level of experience with diagnosing adults instead of children. You will present differently than a child, something that seems logical but somehow seems to confuse health care professionals. But judging from my own experience, and that of others, the more information you bring to the table, and the more logically and rationally you argue your case, the more autistic you will sound. The infodumping will work in your favour in this case. 😉

      • Actually I decided on this place based on adults that went there to get diagnosed and later wrote reviews for it because I felt treated like a child that doesn’t have a say when I tried somewhere else first. Most of the reviews were pretty good and I also have friends in the town that already agreed to have me stay over.

        Wouldn’t an international database with reviews on clinics and doctors who diagnose adults be beaaautiful? With ratings and details that help people with sensory issues? Like lighting and noise level and stuff?

        And I never thought of having my infodumping work for me here! (A bit of obvious stimming might help as well …) I love it!

        • I JUST GOT THE CALL BACK! *totally excited* I have an appointment for the eighth of April! First a few tests, then I’ll probably have some time to myself, and the talking about results and maybe my diagnosis may be on the same day! WOOOHOOOO! *jumps around* I’m somewhere betwenn totally happy and nervous bordering in frantic. But I can live with that.

        • I’m so excited for you! It’s a long way off but that gives you time to read more blogs and come to grips with the nervousness, because that’s totally normal! 😉

        • Concerning the waiting lists in most clinics here, that’s practically tomorrow. Cologne for example has a one-year-waiting list. I won’t even get started on Heidelberg.
          And yes, it gives me time to prepare and read up on stuff and pretending the fridge is the doctor and explaining things to the fridge and redeciding about a million times if I want my boyfriend with me for stuff.
          Oh, and I heard my first “You don’t seem autistic” today. I just answered “How many autistic people do you know?” Turned out she had never met one and we actually got into an interesting conversation, I was lucky.

  12. Why would an employer tell you that it doesn’t matter what time you arrive as long as the work gets done, when it clearly DOES matter? They should fix that, and stop saying it. That would drive me batty. I dread re-entering a workforce when my kids are grown…I’m thinking it won’t work well.

    I’m really enjoying your blog, and the comments! Thank you.

    • Thank you for letting me know you enjoy it! That means a lot to me.

      And yeah, it drives me batty too. There are so many things that employers simply don’t say out loud, so many assumptions. I am so bad at reading between the lines. Getting my diagnosis has shed a lot of light on many past misunderstandings and confrontations!

  13. I am one of those “consistently late” people as well.

    Mind you, I get early to work interviews and doctor consultations. As you said, I overbuffer. Usually if I have a job interview I take a book and wait in a café nearby for a little while because I already know I’ll get there from 30 mins to 1 hour early.

    On the other hand, I arrive a little late to friend gatherings (15 mins-20 mins, unless it’s a movie or something with a time to begin, when I do get there on time) and I am of the mostly-late crowd at work. I am lucky to be working where I am because there’s a lot of flexibility on what time you are there (if you do not have a meeting or something in a specific hour, there are people arriving from 7:00 am to 11 am, and people leaving from 17h to 21h). And even so, I find myself spending money in taxis because I find my time slipping. I am not sure if it is overconfidence in time usage (oh, I have 10 minutes, I can do X before leaving home, and then 30 minutes passed) or just plain bad planning.

    I have had one job where the employee told me time of arrival did not matter when after all it did. Fortunately, the other owner really loved my work, so instead of firing me they just had a meeting to tell me “you know, Owner1 really doesn’t mind what time you do arrive, as you do the job and actually leave late, but Owner2 feels this undermines his authority (they used different words) and that it looks bad you arrive later than everyone else. So please arrive before 9:15 and leave at 18-18:30”. Having it spelled out and having a “leaving time” helped me do it, because I struggle with stopping work and then it’s a vicious cycle: I get home very late, have dinner late, go to bed late and early morning I struggle to make good decisions about time.

    Could your boss give you actual arrival-leaving times which he wishes you to fulfill?

    • If I manage to find a job, then I’ll definitely make a point of addressing this. For now, it’s more an exercise in analysing the past.

      (By the way, I love how you have adopted the word overbuffering! Spelling check keeps telling me it’s not a real word but I think it should be).

  14. Also, it may happen that anxiety makes your time management worse. I struggle with anxiety (the silent type, I mean I am not the “loud worrier” and “I don’t look anxious”, my war is all inside my head) and when I am worse my time management suffers a lot.

    • Could be, although it would have to be a type of anxiety or maybe anxiety avoidance that I’m not consciously aware of. When I am aware of feeling anxious, my time management suffers more as well, but that feels more like paralysis, avoidance, or lack of executive function. In good moments, I don’t notice it until it’s critical.

  15. Hahaha! You pretty much just summed up my life here! At least, as it relates to time and arriving to places at a certain time. Wow. When you mentioned sitting on the couch for 15 with your coat, I died laughing, because that it totally what I do, except it’s usually the dining room table. I’m either way too early for things and have to drive around the block a few times to keep from showing up before I should, or I’m late…and yes, it’s the recurring things that I’m late to. I never really thought of it that way before. Thanks for putting all this into words! 😛 No, no solution yet, but just knowing that there are others like me is helpful. Haha.

  16. Oh yes, my sister and I call it “facetime” – this work concept where people just show up and pretend they are being productive just by you seeing their face there. Half the time, these people don’t do anything all day, and they leave the very second 5pm rolls around. Showing up and sitting at their desk somehow proves they are working.

    This is why I’m happy I work at a company with flex hours. It makes a big difference. You come in and “do your time” and leave when you’re done. We have core hours we’re all supposed to be around, but otherwise there’s some leeway in being late (or early).

  17. i haven’t read all of the comments (there are sooo many!), but i have a simalar, if opposite, problem. mine is complete anxiety over being late, which means i am most often early, sometimes waaaaaay early, to appointments. this can cause a host of problems:
    having to wait around and be bored (being bored is like dying a slow death)
    making other people anxious with my early arrival as they are not ready for me
    if traveling with others, my need to be early conflicts with their desire to be on time or a little late
    etc. etc. etc.

    • Other people not being ready is very recognisable! I only have that with non-recurring appointments, as I described, but it’s still something that is intensely awkward. Especially with job interviews!

      Fortunately I’m nearly never bored. I love sitting somewhere and just thinking or reading, not having to be busy. 🙂

  18. Backreading, and it is so nice to hear this from someone else:

    “If there is a specific reason why I need to be at the office ahead of time (like manning the phone line that opens at 8:30, or having a website go live at 10:00), I can manage just fine. But simply keeping up appearances? Not logical. No motivation.”

    For a decade, I’ve struggled to get up on time. I’ve had four alarm clocks at one point, in a desperate bid to convince myself to get up on time for work. And it makes no difference. I wake up, I feel tired, I know no one at work seems to really care if I’m there at 9 or if I coast in around 9:30, I sleep for an hour or so more. Even though I’m absolute certain my boss *does* care, but she never disciplines me, so I feel like she *doesn’t* care. An absolutely untrue state; she *does* care, she just expects me to shape up without her having to take the trouble to discipline me. (And, boy, does that sentence make me sound like a responsible adult.)

    I suppose it’s that desire for rules. There seems to be a rule, but it also seems to be a rule no one’s going to enforce. So how do I take it seriously? If I were ‘properly’ social, I would seek the rewards adhering to the rule would give me–the social approval of my boss–instead of being rather apathetically fine with not receiving them because I’m not overtly punished for breaking the rule. Which is very poor logic on my part, because it amounts to me constantly being *covertly* punished–that is, I never receive my boss’s approval, and I accept that as fair, when I should be actively realizing that not getting her approval is *punishment* and to be avoided.

  19. I’m late to the party here by several years (!) but this post really made me feel so much better as it basically describes my life. Specifically, the things you do aren’t particularly damaging in their own right, but how you feel about them, the anxiety and the decisions, the wasted time or wasted social capital (e.g.with your boss) are the kind of things that make life that much harder. I had a friend who always arrived super-early to work because it suited her to catch a particular train…she was part of the “early” crowd. They always seemed better than me (arrive at work within 1 minute of the designated start time, possibly waste time buying a coffee so as not to arrive unnecessarily early), somehow harder working or taken more seriously. They looked “keen”. I was kind of aware this who gets to work first bullish*t existed but because of taking life literally plus managing my own executive function issues I couldn’t play that game. The fact that my work was always delivered on time and very thorough didn’t quite buy me the same kind of kudos…

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